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Keeping Aiko cool

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Keeping Aiko cool

Post  n-chan on Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:48 pm

I was wondering. Other than heatsinks how do you keep aiko from overheating :3
Heating is a very big problem if a lot of processing is involved so I was curious how you kept the system cool
Or could it be that the hardware you're using doesn't produce as much heat as say a new laptop would? Question

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Re: Keeping Aiko cool

Post  Aiko on Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:42 pm

The processing cut down the power by half as it heat up.
Notice the processor bar "over load" if it reaches red, the software will reduce the processing...
Therefore you will notice more lag time.

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heat

Post  Giniol on Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:24 am

Why not make liquid cooling and radiators on the back?

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Re: Keeping Aiko cool

Post  MattDragonTamer on Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:43 pm

Giniol wrote:Why not make liquid cooling and radiators on the back?

Ok, Liquid cooling using flex-tube like blood vessels would be smart to do. But what liquid to use...
I'm not sure if this stuff has the proper elemental properties to take away heat, but here it is:

Its called "Sapphire Fluid" produced by 3M I think.

A Site Link: http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-Fiction-News.asp?NewsNum=94

The info and links to the specs pages .pdf are there.

Like I said, I don't know if it will work like I think it should, but it might.

As for getting rid of the heat, if you made it so that the liquid distributes the heat away from the most heated spots and out to the limbs and other less think skin parts, you can get the heat to dissipate that way. Like real bodies do. You will have to find a way to make a skin that is life like and that draws heat to it, yet cools off on the outside or gets cold easily.
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Re: Keeping Aiko cool

Post  Aiko on Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:21 am

Aiko doesn't have a cooling system. That is why Aiko's motherboard burnt out...... so I am using my laptop for now...
Aiko's motherboard is only 10cm with core2 build in 8gig solid state.
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Re: Keeping Aiko cool

Post  MattDragonTamer on Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:42 am

Hey!

Just a follow up.... before you go out and buy your replacement Intel Chip... check out AMD and their line.
I find them more reliable and run cooler then the intel do.

If you want number crunching power check out the Opteron...

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_8796,00.html
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internal cooling management.

Post  minoru on Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:41 pm

The problem is when sealed up in the silicon skin there is no ventilation for the CPU and all the other motors and stuff in there. So yes the heat has to be spread out. You want something that will not conduct electricity if it leaks and is chemically inert. So the choices are light oil, a gas like Freon, or perhaps a liquid you would vent into the atmosphere for evaporative cooling. Each of these has advantages and disadvantages in terms of plumbing and cooling efficiency. Without running the numbers I would lean toward a low pressure gas refrigeration system using a fish tank air compressor. If it leaks you don’t have a mess, it is low weight and can be constructed with plastic tubing and rubber ‘bladders’ from tire inner tubes. Along parts of Aiko’s body (under / against the skin) dozens of small round heat sinks could be mounted with the fins pointed inward; where the gas would circulate. (Assuming you don’t want to damage Aiko’s outward appearance) Or you could put Aiko’s ‘boobs’ to good use a heat exchangers. Silicone gel packs with the gas tubes coiled inside. No pun intended ;-) For the math you need a measure of the heat generated per second. Next you need a measure of the surface area you can make available for heat disipation. Next you have to measure the amount of insulation created by the silicone 'skin'. How much heat will it radiate per second per centimeter? Next you have to experimentally measure the efficiency of your heat exchange system. Finally you will come up with a ratio of heat to surface area needed to disipate the heat per second. Hopefully this does not lead to a unmanageable surface area requirment. Like more than her whole body.

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Re: Keeping Aiko cool

Post  Seito on Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:49 pm

MattDragonTamer wrote:Hey!

Just a follow up.... before you go out and buy your replacement Intel Chip... check out AMD and their line.
I find them more reliable and run cooler then the intel do.

If you want number crunching power check out the Opteron...

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_8796,00.html
It's not a good idea to use AMD cpu's in such kind of project. Of course if you're not building a steam-boiler. Inte cpu's have great advantage in arythmetic operations. Video processing (coding/decoding) runs faster even in compare with AMD. Yes, I use Intel hardware at home - PC and my laptop are Intel-based, but I had experience working with AMD and their bugs on a straight place.
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Re: Keeping Aiko cool

Post  Aiko on Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:51 pm

Hi

Yes, it's true Intel cpu process faster when it comes to vision and graphic rendering...

I will put more heat sink in Aiko version 2.
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Re: Keeping Aiko cool

Post  Seito on Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:04 am

Aiko wrote:Hi

Yes, it's true Intel cpu process faster when it comes to vision and graphic rendering...

I will put more heat sink in Aiko version 2.
I think, there was an idea someone suggested, about making pseudo-veins with, for example, distilled water as a coolant - water cooling system. There won't be much noise at all and all systems will be kept cool.
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Re: Keeping Aiko cool

Post  haseo on Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:37 am

Heat also equals wasted battery power.
Off the shelf hardware is fine for the prototype, but if you making lots of Aikos its better to go for something a little less power hungry.

Have you looked this site at all ?
http://www.arm.com/

This appears to be what would be needed, up to 4 620mhz cpus.
ARM11 MPCore
Possibly on one chip, but I'd think 4 separate chips in different locations would be a way to deal with heat.

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Re: Keeping Aiko cool

Post  poto on Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:35 am

Le, have you thought about running air intake/exhaust tubes to Aiko's nose and mouth? I'm not sure what the flow rate would be like with those small openings, but if it was high enough it might be able to vent the waste heat and sort of simulate breathing too.

And guys, fancy liquid cooling systems with artificial veins sound neat, but try to be more realistic. Something like that would be extremely hard to make and probably incredibly expensive. Not to mention the fact that it's mechanically wrong. Just circulating a fluid alone, without some sort of radiator or heat exchanger would not solve the heat problem. IMHO, using Aiko's skin as a radiator just isn't feasible right now.
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Re: Keeping Aiko cool

Post  Aiko on Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:29 am

Heating problem could be solve by using the new 45nm cpu.
I will put the two main board farther apart. Liquid nitrogen cooling system would be nice, but it takes up too much space and power.
Remember Aiko suppose to run on battery, can't take too much power to do "cooling stuff".


Unless I use large Steel frame for Aiko body verison 2 and make that as a heat sink too.
That is the cheapest solution.

Very Happy
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Re: Keeping Aiko cool

Post  Seito on Fri Jan 02, 2009 5:49 am

haseo wrote:Heat also equals wasted battery power.
Off the shelf hardware is fine for the prototype, but if you making lots of Aikos its better to go for something a little less power hungry.

Have you looked this site at all ?
http://www.arm.com/

This appears to be what would be needed, up to 4 620mhz cpus.
ARM11 MPCore
Possibly on one chip, but I'd think 4 separate chips in different locations would be a way to deal with heat.
ARM are cool. I wonder if B.R.A.I.N.S run under POSIX systems - then it will be easier to use ARMs. BUT. Still ARM too slowly for her. For normal work she needs 4 quad-cores (not less) with proper cooling...and powering.
poto wrote:Le, have you thought about running air intake/exhaust tubes to Aiko's nose and mouth? I'm not sure what the flow rate would be like with those small openings, but if it was high enough it might be able to vent the waste heat and sort of simulate breathing too.

And guys, fancy liquid cooling systems with artificial veins sound neat, but try to be more realistic. Something like that would be extremely hard to make and probably incredibly expensive. Not to mention the fact that it's mechanically wrong. Just circulating a fluid alone, without some sort of radiator or heat exchanger would not solve the heat problem. IMHO, using Aiko's skin as a radiator just isn't feasible right now.
Well, I didn't think about it, but possibly you're right (I mean about air intake/exhaust tubes) - combining with water cooling of course as use of radiators (only) may cause some damage inside her body.
Aiko wrote:Heating problem could be solve by using the new 45nm cpu.
I will put the two main board farther apart. Liquid nitrogen cooling system would be nice, but it takes up too much space and power.
Remember Aiko suppose to run on battery, can't take too much power to do "cooling stuff".
Unless I use large Steel frame for Aiko body verison 2 and make that as a heat sink too.
That is the cheapest solution.
Yes...what are the costs for that solution. And I think liquid nitrogen not good idea as one part of body will always be overfreezed and any damage the liquid transport system will cause internal damage to Aiko. I'd rather prefer distilled water...
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cooling system options

Post  captquazar on Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:34 pm

I like the idea of sucking in air thru the mouth. YOu pipe it to the lower abdomen and release below the main boards. Use fish tank compressor or perhaps hair dryer motor assembly. (without the heat coils of course) You don't want to vent thru the nose, too close to intake. create grid in back between shoulder blades? Full steel frame would add a lot of weight, increase power requirements.
but perhaps in selected areas convienent to airflow to act as heat exchangers. I suppose if you could keep her cheeks apart, you could blow or suck air out her ass. NO I'm not trying to be funny.
Again the heat production needs to be measured to estimate the needed heat exchange rate.

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Re: Keeping Aiko cool

Post  Kal-el on Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:21 pm

Also don't forget about the ears, you can suck air through her years. lol!

Now seriously, you need to cut a whole on her lower back where you can direct all the hot air out with tubing and as said before suck the air with some tubing through the mouth, nose and ears.

Even if you use a metal schelet as radiator, it will be interior so it still needs cooling.

You're the chemist here, how is silicone at conducting heat? Something tell me it's more of a insulation material than a heat conductor.

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Re: Keeping Aiko cool

Post  haseo on Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:39 am

The big issue is the only places that can vent hot air directly are those which aren't covered by clothing, namely the face/head and hands. Everything else is covered up by clothing at some stage.

The mouth is also out as it would effect the quality/volume of Aiko's voice.

Given that people have warm skin, spreading the heat over a wider area is possible, the question is what is the best way ?

What about heatpipes ?
Aluminium not copper for obvious weight reasons.

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Re: Keeping Aiko cool

Post  Seito on Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:51 am

haseo wrote:The big issue is the only places that can vent hot air directly are those which aren't covered by clothing, namely the face/head and hands. Everything else is covered up by clothing at some stage.

The mouth is also out as it would effect the quality/volume of Aiko's voice.

Given that people have warm skin, spreading the heat over a wider area is possible, the question is what is the best way ?

What about heatpipes ?
Aluminium not copper for obvious weight reasons.
Yeah! She would speak like Dart Weider... I think possible variants are heat pipes, water cooling. And, maybe - self control of temperature. In fact she must control her own temp and if it rises above defined level - reduce core speed for a short time to lower the temperature etc.
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Save the CPU!

Post  Reaper on Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:07 pm

Only an air exchange system is going to be practical at this time. Once the heat equalizes in an enclosed space, a bigger heat sinc will have no effect. You should do what ever is necessary to get a good air exchange around the cpu with outside air even if it means several noisy fans. Of course, there is no reason at this early stage to even have cpus inside the body.
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Head Vent?

Post  Suze on Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:23 am

Is it probable to insert a ventilation tube (?2cm diameter) (chimney) or multiple tubes from CPU's to updraft heat to the top of her body instead of heat exiting downward? Insert maybe like a spine...? Perhaps the very top of her head, under her hair, could have a grid of holes for heat to escape to the exterior? Sort of like a 'breezeway' or wind corridor? Add fashion warning - no hats covering the vent? Possibly very small fan at lower end of vent tube...faster heat exit flow?

I'll go read more on where things are placed in her body before making any further comment. I don't have any experience in this field. Just offering ideas.

Thinking...
adding a liquid system for heat dispersion would add overall weight; and liquids increases risk of damage to other components if they escape internally.

Wondering...
how much heat could arise also from joint movement/friction - say when Aiko's scrubbing a toilet clean? Some cleaning/scrubbing jobs involve a lot of fast repeating movement - would it create much heat from shoulder, elbow and wrist joints?

Thanks to contributors...its very educational reading everyone's posts here.
I hope you'll all forgive me if some of my questions and ideas are unrealistic.
I don't know a lot yet about physics.
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Re: Keeping Aiko cool

Post  Balmung on Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:09 am

Hm, it where nice, if the heat could be used to simulate the body heat.
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Re: Keeping Aiko cool

Post  Aiko on Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:07 pm

The heating problem should be solve with Aiko V2. The 3 battery will be store in her butt....still enough room in the center of the butt for you know what.
The whole body frame will use as heat sink... lots of air will flow out from the back, so it should be OK, one USB port on her right arm... for charging your iPod, cellphone...etc...

Battery: MN-polyer.... it should last about 2 hours...
Motor: Linear motor.... NO more servo..... for the arm, neck, body spinal, and hip and legs...
Servo will only be use for the mouth..... cheaper that way.
Linear motors is stronger and you don't hear that anyoying high pitch sound.

There will be 14 DOF for both legs...(not counting the toes.... haven't figure out what to do)

I should be ordering parts soon.
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Re: Keeping Aiko cool

Post  Discoman on Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:36 pm

Aiko wrote:Hi

Yes, it's true Intel cpu process faster when it comes to vision and graphic rendering...

I will put more heat sink in Aiko version 2.

heat sinks are inefficient. try heat pipes if you don't want to use liquid or phase change cooling. it's the same tech used to cool critical components on orbiting satellites.
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Re: Keeping Aiko cool

Post  Guest on Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:42 pm

Discoman wrote:
Aiko wrote:Hi

Yes, it's true Intel cpu process faster when it comes to vision and graphic rendering...

I will put more heat sink in Aiko version 2.

heat sinks are inefficient. try heat pipes if you don't want to use liquid or phase change cooling. it's the same tech used to cool critical components on orbiting satellites.

IDK, if Le uses the entire frame of Aiko which is a good bit of metal as the heat sink, I would think it would be quite efficient at dissipating the heat considering the overall amount heat generated.

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Re: Keeping Aiko cool

Post  Konrad13 on Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:59 pm

Why not a mix system? heat sinks and heat pipes? the sinks would dissipate a lot of the heat, but the more internal systems that would get little access to being cooled would be cooled via a heat pipe...

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Re: Keeping Aiko cool

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