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Database & Memory, Client-Server BRAINS Software Correlation to the Human Brain.

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Database & Memory, Client-Server BRAINS Software Correlation to the Human Brain.

Post  Takiyon on Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:39 am

Mr. Trung:

I came across your web site and naturally being a programmer for many years I was very interested. I was always had a fascination with robots and A.I. But I am primarily a database programmer, and saw your B.R.A.I.N.S. software and was envisioning such an application for use in the mobile car computing world. Artificial Intelligence would be something interesting if adapted to an automobile, someone inside your car that you can talk to that can give you directions and perhaps protect you from getting into an accident by warning you of danger ahead. I think I would be cool to carry on a conversation with your car and try to figure out problems like in Star Trek when the captaing talks to his ship, where the computer and humans come to mutual solutions. Anyway I was thinking about the correlation between memory and databases. On your website you say that Aiko 2.0 you will have thread that will process Speech which includes the Database for Aiko. These are my thoughts, I would be interested to know what you think.

Like the human brain, memory(the function of...) and storage(the medium in which to do so) would go hand in hand. what I mean by that is that they seem like a seperate system altogether. when our brain process information we think to ourselves, "hmm... What can this be?" And we ask our internal storage system which is the memory center of our brain (the frontal lobe I belive). We pass this information to the area that contains this system and it processes this information and it sends back a result that we can process or extrapolate from what we have. I believe that a system designed like this, (which would be pretty much the memory engrams for aiko) should be a seperate system altogether running on a seperate processor or system. Possibly a low power system running mySQL where Aiko can ask her memory for this information and not worry about processing it herself, just like a real human. The side effect of this would also be more CPU cycles saved for her to process other information and saving RAM for more important information.

Coming from a client-server processing background I can see the benefits of writing such scalable code where the processing is done somwhere else and results are send back from the database and processed by the client. Breaking up the human brain into such regions, every system would need a dedicated processor which I am sure you do not have the budget for. Although if you were to start using such processors such as the Intel atom(which are really cheap and low power) and split not only the threads but systems to secondary cpu's we would get closer to having Aiko's brain working more like ours where every process is split to a seperate subsystem. I think of Data from Star Trek when he says something like "Secodary Sub-Processor in my positronic matrix." Technobabble like this can be made to be real if given a mean and application to do it. Thinking of such things makes me proud that we live in such an era.

Before I keep going with more of my wacky and crazy ideas. I would be interested to know what you think about this one.

Thank You,

Rich, Very Happy

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Re: Database & Memory, Client-Server BRAINS Software Correlation to the Human Brain.

Post  Aiko on Fri Apr 17, 2009 4:55 am

Hi Rich,

I have thought about this for a long time, having the main super computer outside. A simple computer inside of Aiko, which pass the data to the main server for processing and back to Aiko again. However, I don't think that will work too well, wireless is still slow, and bad reception. You can't bring Aiko outside without worring if the server is running or not...


In theory, it is a good idea, but reality it is not. Money, slow connections....etc.....

Aiko data base is very simple, it store as XML... don't ask me why I did that.... when I first started... it was suppose to be simple data, but now it is getting bigger, and I never change the format.

3-D object is save as .AIK format (stand for Aiko) store inside the solid state which is 2Gig.... not much you can store with 2Gig... when I have the money I will replace that 2G with 60Gig.

I find the Intel Atom is the most useless CPU.... all you can do is browse the internet... I have tried it..... It can barely do 640x480 video.
But you can't beat the price.... I guess you pay what you get...

I am still waiting for the mobile Core i7 cpu... hopefully it will be better..
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Theory

Post  Takiyon on Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:32 am

Putting the server outside?? I hope I did not lead you to believe to do such a thing. What I meant was to use the theory of client-server design with Aiko. Where a low power cpu such as the Intel Atom-although slow can just be used to retrieve the data Aiko needs. I understand that the Atom is "useless" when it comes to processing power. But for such a specific application I believe it may be something great. If Aiko had a small MicroITX Pc running SQL Server just for data retrieval I believe that It will free her main pc up for other tasks. If you are interested I have included a link below to a nice place to buy such hardware. I use such hardware for the computer in my car. Like the human brain most of the processing power is not used in retriving data as memories. Most of the processing in the human brain is always processing the task at hand.

http://www.logicsupply.com/

This one is more car oriented but some hardware can be used.
http://www.mp3car.com

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A noob's POV

Post  Guest on Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:28 pm

I don't know what the hell you guys are talking about, but without all the technobabel, this sounds pretty good.

So you don't get the wrong idea about an outside server:
Outgoing packets would be uploaded from the same laptop, but would be coded separately like an online multiplayer game.
Incoming packets would be processed in the BRAINS software, and converted into information Aiko can understand.

A good analogy would be the Star Trek transporters.
It rearranges your molecules in a matter stream (teleporting beam), but leaves your original pattern in the "pattern buffers".
Once the matter stream hits the surface again, the original pattern is destroyed, and the pattern buffers are cleaned out with the first pattern in tact, and then memory engrams are (conveniently) retrieved from the planet's surface (how was never explained).

Come to think of it, everyone in the 23rd and 24th centuries are clones with memories of their original life.

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Correlation with the human brain

Post  guest2 on Mon Apr 20, 2009 3:48 pm

I am a total layman when it comes to machines, so please don't hurt me if this is a stupid post. I know a thing or two about biology. Is'nt it possible to have different processors to control different elements of Aiko's functions, like a biological brain? Say, one processor that recieves data from optical sensors to 'see' an object, one from gyo sensors to maintain ballance and so on, all routed through one super 'master' processor. That's what happens in the human brain, we have floods of data from our sensors, but our decision making centre proceses this and decides a proper course of action. Surely something like this could make Aiko and sister Yumecom's so much more human? Or is it imposible expensive, bulky, requires too much power etc? Like I said, I know little about computers. But I think this project could go so far and I've never seen anything like it outside of sci-fi.

Just my 2 cents.

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You Said It Brother...

Post  Takiyon on Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:07 am

YES. Exactly what I was trying to get across to Mr Trung. I was trying to convey using many small low power processor to handle specific tasks. But to start just having a database run on a seperate low power processor that is handling just Aiko's memories. Because Even if we use low power processors like the Intel ATOM for specific purposes they will be fast enough for that specific purpose since the processor is really not doing anything else.

guest2 wrote:I am a total layman when it comes to machines, so please don't hurt me if this is a stupid post. I know a thing or two about biology. Is'nt it possible to have different processors to control different elements of Aiko's functions, like a biological brain? Say, one processor that recieves data from optical sensors to 'see' an object, one from gyo sensors to maintain ballance and so on, all routed through one super 'master' processor. That's what happens in the human brain, we have floods of data from our sensors, but our decision making centre proceses this and decides a proper course of action. Surely something like this could make Aiko and sister Yumecom's so much more human? Or is it imposible expensive, bulky, requires too much power etc? Like I said, I know little about computers. But I think this project could go so far and I've never seen anything like it outside of sci-fi.

Just my 2 cents.

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Yes

Post  Takiyon on Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:20 am

Clones ??? Freaky. But I think I understand what you mean. I this case I am trying to keep it simple for Mr. Trung. Client-Server applications in this case would be Client(Brains) - Server(Aiko's Memories). Brains software says "Hey what is?..." SQL Server database goes crunching numbers on another CPU and send the info back to brains and says "Here it is". Brains ultimately will say "hmm... is this what I am looking for?", "Yes or No". Now this is just for starters. Ultimately everthing would be processed seperately on different CPU's. This way no one CPU is maxed out and slowing down Aiko.

Guest wrote:I don't know what the hell you guys are talking about, but without all the technobabel, this sounds pretty good.

So you don't get the wrong idea about an outside server:
Outgoing packets would be uploaded from the same laptop, but would be coded separately like an online multiplayer game.
Incoming packets would be processed in the BRAINS software, and converted into information Aiko can understand.

A good analogy would be the Star Trek transporters.
It rearranges your molecules in a matter stream (teleporting beam), but leaves your original pattern in the "pattern buffers".
Once the matter stream hits the surface again, the original pattern is destroyed, and the pattern buffers are cleaned out with the first pattern in tact, and then memory engrams are (conveniently) retrieved from the planet's surface (how was never explained).

Come to think of it, everyone in the 23rd and 24th centuries are clones with memories of their original life.

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Sounds like alot of work.

Post  Guest on Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:26 pm

Takiyon wrote:Clones ??? Freaky. But I think I understand what you mean. I this case I am trying to keep it simple for Mr. Trung. Client-Server applications in this case would be Client(Brains) - Server(Aiko's Memories). Brains software says "Hey what is?..." SQL Server database goes crunching numbers on another CPU and send the info back to brains and says "Here it is". Brains ultimately will say "hmm... is this what I am looking for?", "Yes or No". Now this is just for starters. Ultimately everthing would be processed seperately on different CPU's. This way no one CPU is maxed out and slowing down Aiko.
Such a complicated process for so little tasks.
Why do we swing our arms when we walk?
We don't have to think about it.
Why do we eat when we're hungry, cry when we're sad, etc.?
There should be subsystems for instinct and auto responses, but that's a little too much to hope for at present.
Maybe by the 22nd Century we can see more advanced stuff come out.

By the way, balance, navigation, and hearing all come from the human ear (see Galvanic Vestibular Stimulation).

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Re: Database & Memory, Client-Server BRAINS Software Correlation to the Human Brain.

Post  Kal-el on Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:10 am

Why do I have the impression that Takiyon,Guest,Guest 1 are the same guy? Laughing

One of the funniest and lamest threads I've seen here. Laughing Laughing

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The same guy

Post  guest2 on Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:04 am

Because I'm not (although I can't vouch for guest). I just happened to understand the original post and decided to contribute with my background as a biologist.

Guest2 (NOT Takiyon)

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Lame Thread?

Post  Takiyon on Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:50 pm

Nope not me. And why is this thread lame?? I just am just trying to supply ideas. That is what a forum is used for. Am I not correct? Perhaps think the thread is lame because you don't get it?

Kal-el wrote:Why do I have the impression that Takiyon,Guest,Guest 1 are the same guy? Laughing

One of the funniest and lamest threads I've seen here. Laughing Laughing


Last edited by Takiyon on Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:57 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Database & Memory, Client-Server BRAINS Software Correlation to the Human Brain.

Post  Takiyon on Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:56 pm

I understand your point but I don't think we have to wait until the 22nd Century. We have the technology now to do alot of stuff. and with computers as small as this.(See Link Below) I believe we can accomplish what I speak of. Computers in small spaces are already being used in cars. I am doing the same to my ride. I am hoping to have a fully networked computer system in my Civic and when I buy my QX4 I am thinking of doing the same. I like to tinker with computer systems. So isn't this what it's all about? Geeks coming together and sharing ideas?

http://www.logicsupply.com/products/px10000g


Guest wrote:
Takiyon wrote:Clones ??? Freaky. But I think I understand what you mean. I this case I am trying to keep it simple for Mr. Trung. Client-Server applications in this case would be Client(Brains) - Server(Aiko's Memories). Brains software says "Hey what is?..." SQL Server database goes crunching numbers on another CPU and send the info back to brains and says "Here it is". Brains ultimately will say "hmm... is this what I am looking for?", "Yes or No". Now this is just for starters. Ultimately everthing would be processed seperately on different CPU's. This way no one CPU is maxed out and slowing down Aiko.
Such a complicated process for so little tasks.
Why do we swing our arms when we walk?
We don't have to think about it.
Why do we eat when we're hungry, cry when we're sad, etc.?
There should be subsystems for instinct and auto responses, but that's a little too much to hope for at present.
Maybe by the 22nd Century we can see more advanced stuff come out.

By the way, balance, navigation, and hearing all come from the human ear (see Galvanic Vestibular Stimulation).

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Re: Database & Memory, Client-Server BRAINS Software Correlation to the Human Brain.

Post  Kal-el on Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:16 pm

Ok, I got the impression that you're the same guy.

I understand what you talked about there, the thread would've been lame if you were Takiyon and Guest at the same time, Laughing , that would've been very lame.

I'm not a programmer but if you got multi-core processors(all of today's proc are multi core) shouldn't it be better to divide BRAINS software into 3 or 4 software and run all 4 at the same time, I think they would run better on multi core processors, that's what multi core proc are for, multi tasking.

I think Lee wrote on this forum in a thread about this, that he wants to divide BRAINS soft in more than one program, language, vision, speech, movements. Smart move, multi core processors are made to run more than one program at the same time.

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LoL

Post  WulfCry on Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:43 am

Here I was thinking the same thing Laughing "Guest and Takiyon" are one and the same. Laughing

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Who is Guest?

Post  Guest on Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:49 pm

See below...

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Re: Database & Memory, Client-Server BRAINS Software Correlation to the Human Brain.

Post  Artilects rule! on Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:51 pm

Artilects rule!
Takiyon wrote:I understand your point but I don't think we have to wait until the 22nd Century. We have the technology now to do alot of stuff. and with computers as small as this.(See Link Below) I believe we can accomplish what I speak of. Computers in small spaces are already being used in cars. I am doing the same to my ride. I am hoping to have a fully networked computer system in my Civic and when I buy my QX4 I am thinking of doing the same. I like to tinker with computer systems. So isn't this what it's all about? Geeks coming together and sharing ideas?

http://www.logicsupply.com/products/px10000g
Well, I can't really make heads or tails out of this, so I'll have to believe you.
It must be like the fan in your disk drive turning on because of heat censors that fire by themselves without prompting by a program.

It's kinda scary when you think sci-fi movies are getting close to reality.
The LHC is only the beginning.
How long will it be before Yumecoms realize that they are superior to humans?
To be companions as Mr. Trung wants them, they must be equal to us, excelling in our failings (female to male intelligence/mothering instinct, flexibility, and accuracy), while we excel in their failings (male to female upper body strength, speed/hunting instinct, and competitiveness).

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Understood. But...

Post  Takiyon on Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:11 pm

Yes he did speak about putting the brains software on multicore processor. This is a great step in the right direction, but by doing so many processor intensive tasks on a single bus you are hampering all of the other processors. Think of your internet connection and imagine 20 people using your internet at the same time. Same effect. Slow! You will be able to get more out of the machine is certain tasks are relegated to machines that are specific in their task.
Kal-el wrote:Ok, I got the impression that you're the same guy.

I understand what you talked about there, the thread would've been lame if you were Takiyon and Guest at the same time, Laughing , that would've been very lame.

I'm not a programmer but if you got multi-core processors(all of today's proc are multi core) shouldn't it be better to divide BRAINS software into 3 or 4 software and run all 4 at the same time, I think they would run better on multi core processors, that's what multi core proc are for, multi tasking.

I think Lee wrote on this forum in a thread about this, that he wants to divide BRAINS soft in more than one program, language, vision, speech, movements. Smart move, multi core processors are made to run more than one program at the same time.

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Agree...

Post  Takiyon on Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:17 pm

Interesting Analogy... It will not be long before we welcome a new "Species" among us. Perhaps when we are old and grey but soon. I look forward to it. I only hope that we as a species treat our children with respect or we will be joining John Connor in trying to fight them. Also what is an Artilect?

Artilects rule! wrote:Artilects rule!
Takiyon wrote:I understand your point but I don't think we have to wait until the 22nd Century. We have the technology now to do alot of stuff. and with computers as small as this.(See Link Below) I believe we can accomplish what I speak of. Computers in small spaces are already being used in cars. I am doing the same to my ride. I am hoping to have a fully networked computer system in my Civic and when I buy my QX4 I am thinking of doing the same. I like to tinker with computer systems. So isn't this what it's all about? Geeks coming together and sharing ideas?

http://www.logicsupply.com/products/px10000g
Well, I can't really make heads or tails out of this, so I'll have to believe you.
It must be like the fan in your disk drive turning on because of heat censors that fire by themselves without prompting by a program.

It's kinda scary when you think sci-fi movies are getting close to reality.
The LHC is only the beginning.
How long will it be before Yumecoms realize that they are superior to humans?
To be companions as Mr. Trung wants them, they must be equal to us, excelling in our failings (female to male intelligence/mothering instinct, flexibility, and accuracy), while we excel in their failings (male to female upper body strength, speed/hunting instinct, and competitiveness).

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Artilect definition

Post  Guest on Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:41 pm

Takiyon wrote:What is an Artilect?
Artilect stands for artificial intellect.
It is a digital growing brain, not just growing in education, but physically (a nano community).
The casing of it of course stays the same size, but the nanites will compensate for that by compressing their data stream until they burn out, replaced by new pathways.

Remember that episode on Star Trek: The Next Generation where Data is convinced that the AI brought aboard are being treated as slaves?
That's pretty much the same thing, but the guy who is working on this (Professor Hugo de Garis) can explain it better.

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Re: Database & Memory, Client-Server BRAINS Software Correlation to the Human Brain.

Post  Takiyon on Sat May 02, 2009 5:37 am

Oh yeah.. I remember, that was a cool episode.

Guest wrote:
Takiyon wrote:What is an Artilect?
Artilect stands for artificial intellect.
It is a digital growing brain, not just growing in education, but physically (a nano community).
The casing of it of course stays the same size, but the nanites will compensate for that by compressing their data stream until they burn out, replaced by new pathways.

Remember that episode on Star Trek: The Next Generation where Data is convinced that the AI brought aboard are being treated as slaves?
That's pretty much the same thing, but the guy who is working on this (Professor Hugo de Garis) can explain it better.

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Re: Database & Memory, Client-Server BRAINS Software Correlation to the Human Brain.

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